Honor Roche: Bridgerton, Strictly Come Dancing and the Power of Dance

Honor Roche is an actor, dancer and performer whose work explores the connection between movement, emotion and storytelling. With a background in dance and performance, Honor has built a career across screen, stage and live entertainment, using her craft to bring characters and stories to life.

She has worked on some of the UK’s most recognised productions, including the Netflix hit series Bridgerton and the BBC’s Strictly Come Dancing, where she brought her expertise in movement, performance and choreography to the screen.

In this episode of The Human Frame, Honor joins Łucja to explore the power of performance and the stories we communicate through our bodies. They discuss her journey through acting and dance, the discipline and creativity behind her work, and how movement can express emotions, experiences and ideas that words alone cannot capture. Together, they explore what it means to perform, connect with an audience, and use creativity as a way of understanding ourselves and one another.

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Host: Łucja Hawking

Music: Yago Cardalda 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to the Human Frame Podcast with me, Woodsea Hawking, where I talk to incredible people that I've met along different industries to talk about art as a form of activism. Today I'm joined by Anna Roach, who is a professional Roman Latin American dancer and IDTA associate level instructor with a background in competitive dance until the age of 21. She later trained in acting and musical theatre at London Central School of Speech and Drama and has since worked across television, film and theatre as a dancer, actress and choreographer both in the UK and internationally. Her credits include collaborations with Strictly Comedy Dancing, including performances on the piano Strictly Cruises, as well as appearing in Netflix Bridgeton as both a dancer and assistant choreographer. And she recently provided board choreography for the upcoming Sky Feature film Flavia featuring Martin Freeman, which is so cool. Thank you so much for joining me today, Anna. I'm really excited to talk more about the body because I think it's such an important part of performing.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yes, definitely, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Okay, so I'm just gonna jump straight into it. Uh when did dance shift from something that you loved into something that you felt you really wanted to commit to as a career?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Well, I think actually I remember exactly the moment that it happened. I went to Warwick University, so I've had a slightly kind of I don't know, you might call it a different route into where I've ended up now, basically. Instead of sort of traditionally going to dance college, which lots of people do, um, I danced a lot when I was a child, but then I actually decided to go to university first before anything else. So I did a lot of dancing when I was there and some theatre as well, and there was a competition that um myself and some of my other dance fellow dancers from classes and things joined and entered together. I think it was called Battle of the Dances or something like that. So it's like 2000s core. Um, but I I choreographed a piece for us and then we went and competed. I think it was in Leicester somewhere, and just we got really good feedback, and it was the sort of the first taste of something kind of outside of the bubble of you know where we were studying, and people were sort of you know giving me good feedback about the choreography and about the girls performing and things, and I just thought, do you know what? I think actually I would really like to pursue this and see where this might go in the future. So that was a very small moment, but it did that was the first time I remember actually thinking, oh, perhaps this is something that I could pursue.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

And what drew you specifically to Borgham and Latin stars? Because I feel like they are quite, I mean, they're I love them, they're there's something I'm drawn to as well, but they're quite unique in the sense of like young, younger people also doing them.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah, that's true. Well, when I started, um it basically was a style that I'd never tried, so I did come to it relatively late. You know, there's some people that start Latin and Borham when they're very, very small, but it we didn't have anything, any schools near me when I was growing up that had that particular style, so you know, strictly wasn't on the on the TV or wasn't as um you know amazingly popular as it is now, so it just wasn't kind of any something that was on my radar. So I just wanted to try it as I just as I mentioned, I went to university, so I basically joined any and all dance-related things that I could find when I got there. And borum and latin was one of them, and partly actually the reason that I think I stayed as long as I did in that particular environment was actually the people that I met because Latin and Borum is can be such a a social thing to do as well when you're first learning. Obviously, it depends when you go into competition. Sometimes it can become a bit more isolating because it's just yourself and your partner against the world sort of thing. But when I was first learning, the group that I was with were just really lovely, and we spent so much time together, and it was that aspect of it as well that drew me to it, I think, in terms of the environment. But in as a partner dance now, having done it for so long, I just obviously am biased, but I just personally think there isn't anything better really than dancing with another person, like that connection that you get with another human being uh when you're dancing together is really unique and special, so yeah, definitely. It's really shaped me and the other things that I've ended up doing.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Do you have a specific favourite ballroom or Latin dance that you like the most to perform or just to watch as well?

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Um I mean they're all so different, aren't they? They've all got their own different characteristics. But I probably I would say if I had to choose between the Latin and the ballroom disciplines, like in general, I would actually choose the ballroom just because I think for whatever reason, I love both obviously, but the ballroom kind of sits a bit more naturally within I think myself and just my general sort of makeup physicality. Um and within that, I think probably the Viennese waltz is just so beautiful to watch, and I love dancing that particularly. But the tango as well, I really love just because on the complete other end of the scale, you know, the Viennese waltz is such a kind of romantic dance traditionally, and then you've got something like the tango that is so passionate and dramatic, so it's just nice to have those different um outlets for different characters that you can bring to the dances.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Yeah, completely I love the tango is my favourite.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

I love like the the emotion that you have to you kind of have to be an act of performing when you do uh a dance. How do you think that brings out the performance even more?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Um, you mean in terms of like acting through character? Yeah, definitely you're right. I think they are very intrinsically linked, despite the fact that you know it's interesting that sometimes when people go to train professionally, either you know, to train to be a dancer or train to be an actor, I think some of the best dancers for me personally to watch are the ones who are actually acting within their performance. So it's I think it's something that should try and be included within dance training as well from the beginning, just because, as you say, character, particularly in the Latin and Borum styles, they've all got such distinctive feelings as genres, but then when you're performing them, you know, whether it's on stage or on a competition floor, particularly on competition floors, you need something to make you stand out to the judges. And there's there comes to a point where technically you can be as sound as you possibly can be, but there has to be that kind of certain X factor that brings you more to you know the forefront of people's minds or makes you stand out as a performer. So I think acting within a performance is so key and something that, as I say, people should really think a little bit more about in general for dancing.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah, I know I watched this video the other day, I think it was on Instagram of all places, uh, of a dancer doing the same dance, but one just really technically 100% all dance, but no facial expressions. And then it was the other the other half was like uh 30% dancing with all the facial expressions, and that one looked the best.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

It's really interesting to see that like it does take quite a like the the facial expression and putting your energy into it actually makes it look 100% better.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Honestly, it does, and I think it's uh like I said earlier, I think it's such an important part, like people would just generally call it performance, I think. Um, particularly within uh the dance world, that you need to bring performance in like maybe an audition situation or when you're in a show. And as you say, for me personally, when I'm watching something, if I'm watching a group of dancers in whatever situation, it will always be the person that is giving a hundred percent in terms of they're really living through what they're doing, and you can feel it coming from them, whether it's facially and physically as well. I would be much more drawn to that person as opposed to the person that might be, you know, technically really on the money. It's after a while, when you get so many people that are really good technically, you get a bit blind to it. So you need to have something else to really draw people in. And I think in terms of your own enjoyment as a dancer, you have to sort of tap into that aspect of it as well, really, to really like try to enjoy what you're doing. I think that's an important part of if you do it professionally. Sometimes I guess it's easy to forget why you chose to do it in the first place when you're just so worried about getting the next job and all that kind of stuff. Like trying to tap into the emotional connection of what you're doing is always really important, I think.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Yeah, definitely. And when you computer, how what did the environment teach you about discipline and pressure as well?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

I mean, I as I say, my competitive career was relatively short because I came to it so late, and I did really enjoy the um the kind of adrenaline of being in competition. That's something that I do miss. Um, it definitely teaches you to be focused. Um it's a very high-pressure environment, or it can be if you allow it to be. So that is a kind of a constant battle, really, that I think everybody has their own ways of dealing with. But you do have to, to an extent, be able to drown out any noise around you and just focus on what it is that you have to do in that moment. Um, it's quite a harsh situation in that you spend X amount of time preparing for something, and then you only have that, you know, minute, maybe, maybe a little bit longer to show what you've done, what you have. So um it's a real microcosm of anyone's ability, really, which can be difficult to deal with when you put all that hard work in, and then obviously you may or may not get the result that you want. So dealing with, as I say, outside pressures, being able to focus, and also having the resilience to kind of just continue regardless of what the result is, to try and not be affected too negatively if it's not something that went your way particularly.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

I feel like that's a theme that's kind of goes through or created.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yes, as I was saying out loud, I was like, gosh, this really is like it's very, as you say, resonant with lots of things, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

It's funny what we put ourselves through, isn't it, just because we love the craft.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Whether it's when you as yeah, when you see it written down or out say it out loud, you think, why do we do this?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Completely. Um, and when you you've core choreographed quite a lot of different um dances for those of different well, TV and and and everything really. When you're choreographing, where do you usually begin? Is it with the music and emotion, or is there something else that you follow?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Well, I mean it kind of depends on what the project is because sometimes, you know, for whatever reason you may not have access to the exact music that you'll be using, or if it's for I don't know, like a TV thing or something like that, you might be given like a brief, if you like, of like what the scene is or what's required of you for that, and you might not have all the pieces of the puzzle necessarily, which can be frustrating, and that's just sometimes how it is in terms of part of the process. So, in that sense, if I was, for example, teaching like a style of dance, that might be all I have to go on initially. So it would be focusing more on the steps as opposed to linking it to music and that kind of stuff. But if if it was my choice, then music is everything to me in terms of choreographing and creating. So I would always start with the music, to be honest, in terms of what inspires me to create the movement and the the emotion of the piece and that kind of thing. For everything, really, if I had the choice, it would music would always come first, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

And how do you translate that into the movement? Uh especially in ballroom when there are loads of like traditional forms that you do have to carry, because you know, from watching loads of strictly and doing it myself, that you there are certain marks you have to hit in order for it to be a specific dance, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yes, that's true, you're right. It kind of is um you could view it as being quite restrictive, I suppose, in that sense. Like as as you say, ballroom, I I'm biased again, as I said earlier, but ballroom is beautiful, I think, even if you you do just stick to it in its traditional form, it is you know, it's it's the way it is for a reason. And I think you see more and more now, for you know, it's nice to see that because dance evolves and it's important to allow it to evolve and sort of push through those traditions, if you like, to create something new. So I guess if you as long as you kind of use the structure and expand it to create new things, then I think that's that's great, and there's a place for everything, you know, you can still have the traditional styles which are just as beautiful as they are, but then you can also have this kind of slightly evolved style. I think the thing is if it's just a fine line, isn't it, when you're creating something that is ostensibly supposed to still be ballroom, if you push it too far the other way, then it does kind of lose its forms which make it what it is. Um so, but as I say, I do think there's a place for everything really, and um I'm all for like uh as I say, kind of evolution of movement and expanding on ideas because I suppose if you look back far enough, a lot of the movement that we have now in our current ballroom style comes from somewhere, you know, it was it's evolved from what it was a hundred years ago, and I'm sure it will evolve again and it's continuing to evolve. So I think, in general, like we mentioned before, to just to make sure that when you are dancing, that the character of the movement and your connection with your partner comes through. I think that is my main thing, particularly for Ballroom, because it's a partner style, that the connection between the couple is what carries the narrative of whatever it is you're creating. So you can create something that technically is really beautiful and the steps might be great, but if that is missing, then I think it can, it just doesn't really resonate as much necessarily.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Have you ever found that maybe as you're dancing, maybe there wasn't chemistry or that wasn't that connection? Yeah. How do you fix that?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

It's um easier said than done. Um I mean I've danced with lots of people over time, um and you know, you you definitely can feel the difference when, for example, like perhaps technically there might be somebody that is a better match for you if you like, and you know, you dance well together in that sense, but then there might be someone else that you dance with where you feel something a bit more with that person. And I also think you can observe that in couples as well sometimes when you're watching competitions, you can see them dancing the steps incredibly well together, but they almost look like they're not really interacting with each other and that they could be dancing separately. And I think just for me personally, that's something that I would always try and cultivate within people is just try and make sure you really are working together as a couple, and I think that can sometimes get lost, um, and that is really important, and I think is what actually, whether people realise it or not, is what draws you in to watch someone is that chemistry and that connection. Um, but yeah, I've definitely felt it more with some people than others, um, and it does really elevate the dancing, I think, to be honest, and it doesn't necessarily have to be the most technical dancing, but if you do have more of a connection with someone, I think it does make everything a lot easier.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

It's the tension, isn't it, that we all want to watch. I mean Bridgeton's a really great example of that one that's just like building the tension to be like it's it's the it's the yearning, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 15:41

That's the word, the buzzword for it. The yearning. It is, it is. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

When you finish a piece of choreography, when do you know it's completely done? Like when are you happy with it, or is there moments that you kind of always want to fix?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

I see what you mean. Um, I guess uh when I when it makes sense to me, if that makes sense to you, um when I'm sort of going through choreographing something, there will often be gaps within it where I know that something has to go in this moment, but I don't know exactly what it is, and I'll come back to it later. Um some things happen really quickly, and I'll be like, yes, this is what needs to happen here. But then sometimes you do need to kind of sit with something or go away and come back to it, and then you get like fresh ideas, or you know, working with other people is really helpful as well. Sometimes when you're trying to create something, if you get like a little bit of a workshop environment where you've got two or three other people, maybe more with you, then you can spark off each other. And sometimes you do need other people's input to kind of push you in the right direction. But yeah, I would say when for me personally, when it feels right with the music and it feels like it flows um and makes sense, then I think okay, this is I think this is ready.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Do you have one specific favourite piece of dancing for from oh wow? I can't say the word now.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Choreography? Choreography. Um, gosh, I don't know, you know. No, to be honest, I I don't really have a favourite. Um, there's lots of like moments over time, a bit like that one that I mentioned earlier where we did that piece at university, and I'm sure if I watched it now, there would be a million things that I would change and be like, oh gosh, I wouldn't do that now. Because it's funny as well how choreography changes, styles of choreography change over time. So, you know, something that was great in the 2000s is kind of obviously it's considered like I suppose it would be retro now, wouldn't it? Which is bizarre. So yeah, I don't know. There's there's certain things that I've choreographed for my because I I have been teaching for a long time, so some of a part of being a boardroom teacher that you can pursue is doing pro am competitions where you dance with your student um at various places, and they can also do show dance categories as well at these things. So, like I've done a couple of show dances with people that were really special with that person, so things like that I'll always remember, and more not specific bits of choreography, really, it's more you know, things that I've done with at particular moments with people that will always be special, things as you say, like Bridgerton, which I didn't choreograph, I assisted Jack, who was the choreographer, but that whole experience was great for me. So it's just I think everyone's career is kind of a tapestry of various things that sort of make up who you are and who you end up becoming next, and it's just those little moments over time that sort of shape where you are and where you're going. So I don't think there's anything specific really that comes to mind, no.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

No, it's it's interesting to see, like, you know, it's more also about the feeling that it that it brings as well. It's it's interesting that that's like a theme that's coming in quite a lot, is the feeling and the connection that you have with someone and your your emotional performance with it as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's that might just be unique to me. Um you might speak to other choreographers and they might say very differently, and also depending on the project, I think sometimes you get the freedom to choreograph within those sorts of um frameworks and do exactly what it is that you would like to do. But then you might present something to somebody and they might turn around and say, That's not what we want, and you have to be able to go, even though in your own mind you might be thinking, What do you mean? This is what you need, or this is great. Um, you have to be able to just literally do what it is that's required of you for that particular thing, and that's when sometimes you have to kind of step outside of what you would want to do in that situation and just serve the thing itself. So that's when you're working professionally, that is something that you will encounter and you have to just deal with it as it happens.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

What made you want to expand into acting in musical theatres alongside dance?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Well, it was actually acting was my first love, really, before dancing. I always loved acting when I was little. And I actually found recently, which made me laugh, this thing that you know when you're at school and you're like seven and they make you're practicing your handwriting and they make you write things like, My favourite food is this, my favourite book is this, blah blah blah. Um, when I grow up, I want to be an actress, is what I wrote. And I was like, Oh wow, that's amazing. And then um I obviously did loads at school and I did um did studies A-level, and I actually wanted to go straight to drama school, but it was my teachers that advised me to um go to university instead, first of all, and then if I still wanted to pursue it, to go and do a second course after, which is what ended up happening. But obviously, by going to Warwick, I then went and did all those things I mentioned earlier, and I started um pursued the Latin and Ballroom stuff more. So I just find it so interesting how the choices that you make in your life lead you to certain things at certain times. So acting would have been the thing that I would have done initially. It's always been something that is kind of in the back of my mind and probably still in my heart really for a really long time. And it was actually doing Bridgerton that made me decide that I wanted to kind of pursue it again because working with Jack, who is a really amazing choreographer and movement director, his act his background is within acting, and he approaches everything in terms of the movement and what we were doing as dancers from an acting perspective, and really made us think about who we were, why we were there, what the situation was, why are you doing this movement? So it became something that was not movement for movement's sake as such. So it just made me, it sort of rewired my brain to think about things differently and from a movement perspective. Things that I kind of I think I knew already from before, but because I'd been so busy doing other things and doing, you know, Latin and Borum for ages, doing competitions, doing like shows and things, you just forget about. That aspect of yourself that was always there, but I just had forgotten. Yeah, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Funny how, like, you know, as a lot of creatives being like, Oh, I need to have a backup in case this doesn't work out. I did the same thing. I was like, need to do a normal uni thing, and then I can do anything else in case. Um, but I think it just shows how society runs that we have to kind of put our make sure we have a plan B rather than you know, a lot of people if they do other careers, it's like, no, this is my plan A, and I don't have any other plan.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it's either option is valid, really. I think there is no right or wrong way to do anything. That's the thing, especially now. Like, I think actually, if given the choice now, and again it's all well and good me saying this with hindsight, but I think things have changed in society since then, and I don't know necessarily how that I mean, I never would never regret doing my degree. I had a great time, I met amazing people, and obviously I got a degree from it, but maybe I wouldn't make that choice again now, given the way that the world is moving. I don't know how valuable it would have would be for me to do that now. But having the plan B thing is certainly something that you have to have as a creative, just because with the best will in the world, you cut you. I don't think there is anybody in the world that is like 100% doing creative work all the time to pay their bills and to survive, you know, you have to do various other things, and I think portfolio careers is some is something that is much more common now. You know, people have two at least at least maybe three things that they do, and that doesn't mean you're lesser at any of them. Um, and I don't think there's any reason you shouldn't be able to pursue different things. Like if you are good at this and you're good at that and you enjoy this, why not do all three things? Like there's there's no reason why you can't do that, and I think that's a really outdated viewpoint from society where it's like you you know you must do this, this is your job, and that's it. So I think giving people more freedom to choose to do those things, and it's you know, knowing that it's okay to do that as well is really important.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah, definitely, and I you know, I see it with so many different creators that are all around, and you know, it's good to also know that you can be devoted to that craft as well. I mean, obviously there is sometimes a bit of frustration because it doesn't always, as we said, it's there's a lot of rejection when you have to deal with that. But how do you think your dance influenced the way you approach character? Has that changed since since you because you said you did art acting first, but did it shift a bit?

SPEAKER_01 24:34

I guess in terms of um dance makes you obviously very aware of your body and yourself in a room, I think. And in terms of I mean, I this is something that I would like to do more work on, to be honest. I'm not saying it there's always more work to be done, but I think if you're a dancer, you you are just inherently more aware of your physicality in terms of your body movements and your spec your relationship with space and that kind of thing. And I think that's important for acting as well, because you need to know not necessarily going into as much detail as like the physicality of your character, although that does come, but just your relationship with another actor in the space as well. Um, just spatial awareness in general. But again, I guess that comes back to to ballroom in a sense. We're talking about connection and partner work and that kind of thing. And I just really enjoy connecting. I think that is probably like my the thing that I've probably said the most today, whether it's in a ballroom sense with a partner when we're dancing or when you're doing a scene with somebody, it's about creating a connection or finding what the connection is between you and the other person or the other people. So I think any kind of dance training is beneficial in general for acting for that, for those reasons that I've said, and just general awareness of your body and your relationship with space, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

I think that's so important, and I think for me it's the most difficult part in a character. Sometimes it's a bit easier because you know, if you have an accent, if a character has an accent, uh whatever it might be, then it's kind of easier to lean into that and your body might sit differently. Yeah. But when it's more yourself, and maybe you know, you can make movements more dancy sometimes because the character might be more calculated, so everything might flow a bit more. I just think it's fascinating. I think people don't, you know, all those little details of how you move and how you carry yourself is so important.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah, I mean I will say that in on the flip side, being a dancer can be a disservice in the sense that you if you are so used to holding yourself in a certain way, it you just do it naturally in your life. So having to break that down as well is something that you would have to be aware of if you're like you were saying, you're playing a particular character that might hold you know, just have a different posture or just it moves or is a certain way. So you I think have being a dancer gives you the ability to shift your shape. That's just something that I we have to be able to do when you're acting, but it's easier said than done if you have kind of been in the habits of moving in a certain way for a really long time. You do sort of have to consciously shift it in your mind as well, and I think it is as much a mind shift as it is physical. But yeah, you're right, it is um it is an important thing to tap into, but be being able to do that is quite difficult sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

And obviously there's a difference when you perform on camera or you know, on set as well as on stage. Is there one that feels better for you or or is there a difference?

SPEAKER_01 27:47

I it's that age-old debate, isn't it? Like TV versus stage, that kind of thing. I think I understand where it comes from because naturally TV is here and then stage is a big space. But in terms of acting style, I don't necessarily think it has to be different. I think if you're this might be naive of me to say this, but I think if you're in a theatre and you're acting on a stage, you can draw the audience to you by giving a performance that's just as nuanced and just as the same as you would give to camera. In its most basic form, I think acting is acting, and I think it shouldn't be bigger because you're on a stage. It might be bigger if you're doing a different style of show, like you know, something like pantomime obviously is incredibly like out there, and the way that you deliver things in that is very different. But I don't necessarily think as in its most core form, acting is the same regardless of whether you're on camera or on stage. For me personally, I think I would love to do more stage work, but just maybe purely because TV has been more my experience up till now. I guess with TV the nice thing is that because the camera is there, you can do things that you that are easier to do in that environment than it is to do on stage. It's not impossible to do, but I think you can really get in there with TV stuff, I feel personally. Um, but I don't necessarily think the style of acting should be different, whether you're on TV or on stage.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Um, same with dance, or do you think it's different? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know whether dance is the same as it's tricky.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

I think it's more to do with almost the um like the setting, if you like, of what it is that you're doing. So the good thing about dancing live on a stage, and again, depending on the type of dancing you're doing, if it was like an Alatin Boruman competition, for example, you're sending the energy out to everyone, you're trying to connect with everyone as much as you can. The judges, uh the people watching, you're trying to just send your energy to the people out there. If you're and but then you know, if it's a drama that you're dancing in on TV, for example, it's it's not out, it's in, in my opinion. You know, if you're dancing as a couple, like, for example, in a period drama, whether it's in the 40s, the 50s, the 1800s, like you're creating a moment, a historical moment that is part of the drama. So that's a different kind of emphasis, I think, as opposed to something that's very much a show. So I think it really is dependent on the project, and just you it's not necessarily something that's black and white. I think you would have to look at the the situation individually and then see what works best.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Yeah, and I'm really excited to talk about Bridgetton because I'm obviously but you worked on Bridgetton for quite a long time, and what was it like bringing Ballroom into that kind of world? Because I feel like it's very it's shaped the ballroom world, oh the ballroom, the the Bridgetton world quite uh a lot. You know, you see the dances uh throughout every episode.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Yeah, I mean, again, that's thanks to Jack, who's our choreographer. We you can see it's lovely to see how it's evolved over the seasons as well, because when we first started in season one, none of us knew really how big the show was going to end up being. We started filming it in 2019, so it's pre-COVID. Um I certainly hadn't heard of the books before, they're based on a series of books. Whenever I would tell somebody that we were, they were like, Well, what are you up to? I said, Oh, we're filming this new period drama, it's called Bridgeton. And people would be like, What? Never heard of that. And I was like, Oh, well, I think it's coming up next year. It's fun, we're just turning up and doing some dancing and having a lovely time. And again, you know, I was saying earlier about how it's often the people that you're with that shape your experience, and that's what happened with me when I joined the ballroom um team at Warwick. It's very similar with Bridgerton because the people were so great. There was about 25 of us in season one for all those big dance scenes, all from all different um, you know, walks of life in terms of dance experience. So, like I was one of the only ballroom dancers in the cast, like there was me and a couple of other people, but most of the dancers were either musical theatre dancers or commercial dancers, contemporary ballet, like all kinds of backgrounds, but all coming together to learn to become one in this style. And I think that was what was really beautiful about the experience was that Jack Jack kind of broke us all down and re-reshaped us in that sense to create this really amazing kind of unit that is just really well known, I think, amongst all the people that watch the show now. Like everyone looked forward to seeing the dances, seeing like what how they're gonna inform the narrative, which I think is important to say as well. You know, they a lot of the time, especially if there was any dancers with actors involved, um, and you mentioned it earlier about how you just constantly, if it's the two characters that you're wanting to get together, you know, Jack would choreograph it in such a way that it would enhance the moment of the drama as opposed to being anything that distracted from the situation. So it just kind of that's the beauty of it, and I think that's something that is always important to keep in mind when you're doing work like that for a show, for a series, like a drama, a story, is making sure that you what you're doing is creating fostering that environment so that when you're watching it, you're completely hooked into the moment, and it's about making that moment special. So that's what um has made Bridgeton what it is, I think. And the ballroom is definitely in there because Jack has a ballroom background as well. But it's nice to see, as I say, that um I did season one, two, in the very beginning of season three, but I haven't done it since. But seeing how it's evolved from that, because obviously you see it in the costumes as well and the hairstyles, and everything has become more opulent over time, so that includes the movement, so that's been able to be sort of pushed a bit further now as well, which is really exciting. So it is nice to see that not just ballroom but historical dance in general is given a real platform because of that show. Because obviously, period drama's been around for a really long time, but something like Bridgerton has really brought it to so many new audiences that wouldn't necessarily have really connected with it before, and I think that's really nice about it as well.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Yeah, I think it's kind of refreshed what Ballroom and Latin. Oh, I mean it doesn't do that much Latin, but what what Ballroom is all about because it's it's fun. I think you know it's it's a nice connection, but also because there are so many like straight lines and stuff. I think I don't know, it's just so elegant and beautiful to to watch, and then watching it in a I mean Bridgeton is a bit obviously it's period, but it's also a bit dystopian that world in a sense because it's obviously not based on a specific it's a fantasy, isn't it? It's a it's a kind of alternate reality, if you like, yeah, and I think it just brings and elevates so much more, and it's just it's fun watching all the dances, and sometimes it's quite funny to watch as well because they're completely not what we were used to, but but it's just an element conversation, I think, as well, that that brings it into, and it's just yeah, it's just so beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 34:59

Yeah, it's um it definitely is something that has, as you say, brought kind of ballroom more to the forefront of people's minds in that sense. And you know, you're saying that it's fun. I think that's something that people forget, like we mentioned earlier when we were talking about how like you can get so caught up in the job, the audition, this, that, and the other, that you just forget to like actually have fun while you're doing this. And then, you know, I said that when I went to first join the dancers at Warwick, that the fun that we had together that like that translates if you're in a competition, if you're dancing in a show, if you're in Bridgerton, and we're trying to create that environment together where it's a group and you're having fun, it's a social setting, it's a social dance. Like, I know ballroom in Latin is also competitive and it's a dance sport now, and it's a show dance sometimes, but in its essence, it's a social dance, and I think it's nice to be reminded of that and just be like, you know, it's okay to not do it right, and it's okay to just have fun with your partner and try new things, dance with different people, like it's not it doesn't have to be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yeah, and obviously, because you're both a dancer and a choreographer, so how do you balance those cre your own creative instincts when a director or an a different choreographer has this different separate vision?

SPEAKER_01 36:17

That's a good question. Um, it can be challenging, it's a bit like what I mentioned earlier: saying how if you feel like a piece of choreography is really ready and it's you know you've done it to the best of your ability and it suits whatever it is you're doing it for, but then the person that you present it to, be it a director or someone of similar, and they say no to it for whatever reason or ask you to change things, you have to kind of like in that situation just like leave yourself alone and just be like, okay, it's not about me, it's about the thing, and making sure that the thing is right for the project, whatever that is. So if and if that's what they want, then you have to do what they want, even if in your mind you're thinking, but I don't think that's I don't agree. Um, as I said earlier, as long as it kind of serves the story, if it serves if it's with actors, for example, if what you give them is perhaps too complicated, and even maybe they can do it and it looks really nice, but it would look strange within the situation for them to suddenly be doing something that just doesn't fit the situation. You have to kind of go, okay, at this point I need to, you know, remove that and actually make it more true to the situation. So I think as long as you always have that in mind, it also keeps you from driving yourself mad by creating something and then having to change it constantly. If you just know what the boundaries are, um, then that makes that a lot easier.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah. And obviously, you've been teaching for a very long time. What do you think people often misunderstand about learning to dance, specifically in ballroom and Latin?

SPEAKER_01 37:56

I think um obviously people come to learn for so many reasons, and that's as you say, I've been teaching for a really long time, and I've taught so many different types of people, different ages, um, different walks of life, and as I say, they come for different reasons. So I think as long as you understand what those reasons are, then you can teach people in the right way. And I think in terms of people misunderstanding about dance, it's more a case of um people. I think if if they're coming to it brand new, then you have to also bear that in mind because we've been doing it as teachers or dancers for however long, and we take or can take that for granted that we're so used to that, and also just walking into a studio environment at a place like a pineapple or places like that can be quite intimidating for people.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Very intimidating something.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

Yeah, because it's not just you know, it's full of all kinds of dancers, not just people that are coming to learn for the first time, but obviously you're surrounded potentially by lots of professionals or people that look like professionals. I say look like because as we know, sometimes in this industry perception is not necessarily the reality. So trying to keep that within your mind as well when you go to these sorts of places. Um, but like dancing doesn't have to be scary. I think that's the thing that a lot of people are scared of it as much as they may want to do it so much and want to learn, they get intimidated by it as a thing, and thinking I'm not gonna be able to do it, I'm gonna feel silly um in front of other people, or there's just always something that is blocking us in some way, and we've all got them for different things, I've got them for various things as well. But I think just trying to be open as an instructor as much as possible, just really welcoming people, making them meeting them where they are basically, and just creating a nice environment for them to feel like it's okay to mess up. Um, you know, we're not doing a show, we're not being judged. Um, I think that's something that a bit like what we were saying earlier, people forget that dancing is is meant to be fun, like you're meant to be enjoying yourself, and I think that's something people might misunderstand about it, is because a lot of what we see of dance, especially now online, um, things like that, is polished performances from various people, not just um professionals but students as well, because obviously, as we know with things like Instagram, it's a curated reality, you know, you don't always see the times that it went wrong, you just see the times that it went right. So just allowing people the space to know that it's about the doing of the thing as opposed to the end product and not wanting to get to the end product straight away, like accepting the fact that you have to go through the motions of it, you have to go through the basic foundations, you have to learn what some might call the boring bits first, particularly in boring Latin, as you know, there's lots of fundamentals to each dance that's really important to learn and understand physically before you can do really advanced choreography. It's when people sometimes want to do all the fancy steps that they see on strictly come dancing or whatever. I'm like, yeah, but you need to learn how to use your feet first before you can do any of this stuff, and you can't run before you can walk. And I think that can be tricky for people sometimes. But as soon as you accept that and actually try and embrace the learning, um, it's much more empowering because then when you understand how to use your body in the right way, you can achieve so much more than if you just kind of try and dive straight in with really difficult steps. So just be being patient, I think, is is one thing people all need to be.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Because if anything, you need to learn exactly how it is to then be able to blur the lines and manipulate it to how 100% your style. Yeah, no, thank you so much, it's been so fun. I was gonna also ask you one last thing. Um what's next? What what what what are you um gonna yeah, what are you on anything in the works at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Um nothing specific at the moment. I've just been I was filming something for Netflix last month, which is like a new um actually I probably shouldn't say in case anyone's under NDA, but um something for Netflix, which is coming out maybe later next later this year or next year. Um but that was nice. That was ballroom related, but it's historical. So that's something that with ballroom experience is nice that you can kind of jump into those TV drama situations to various you know time periods. And I did a show at the South Bank at the weekend, which was for their 75th anniversary. That was really good. That was um like an immersive theatrical show that they did, and I'd never done that before, so that was a new experience for me. So I just who knows basically. I'm just trying to be always open to new opportunities, just new things, trying to, as I say, incorporate a bit more acting within what I'm doing, and I'm still like going to classes, and you know, it's always important to keep learning, and I would say that to everybody like if there's something that you want to do and you want to explore more, just explore it, you know. It might be something that's a bit alien to you, but if it's something that you enjoy, I think there's so many pressures within this industry that you know you have to do this, you have to do that. In order to do this, you must be doing this. But I think, yes, to an extent, but also just doing what you enjoy doing and what makes you happy is something really important.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

You never know, and you know, you could find out that you love it and it makes it gives you purpose and it's the thing that you feel like you're meant to be doing.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Yeah, exactly. You just never know, as I say, what I just try and pursue every road that is opened up to me within reason, as long as it you know, I think you should just follow your gut instinct. And if something if obviously if something feels like it's not the right thing to do, then don't do it. I'm not saying do everything that presents itself, but if an opportunity comes along and I can do it and I want to try it, then I will because as you say, you never know, you might find something new within that for yourself. You might it's meeting new people as well. It's important to make new connections, not just for in for in a professional capacity, but just in life, you know, you meet new people, you have new experiences, and that's what life's all about, really.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Well, thank you so much for this uh lovely presentation. I love it. Thank you for having me.